The Promise of Ever and Never
by mlmintampa on Jul 14, 2009 12:11 PM EDT
in Florida Football
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PrintIt only took a few hours for Urban Meyer's, "I'm not going to Notre Dame. Ever," to become a facebook status message, a furious email between Gator fans, or a phone call to break up a dull workday. The fact that Meyer thought enough of the bull spouted by Alabama columnists, Georgia coaches, and South Carolina's head coach says something about the way Meyer looks at these rumors.
Just like his response to the jail-Gators or aiming criticism at former players, Meyer seems to believe that he must attack any slight to the program head on. This is good and bad; you need to shine light on something in order to chase away the rumors. But, sometimes that light exposes things you don't want people to see. Meyer seemingly putting his own fan base into "with us" or "against us" after going at Matthews was one of those. As much as Meyer likes to be out in front of things, he's not exactly delicate about it.
Such is the case about his comment concerning Notre Dame. It was made at Pat Dooley's golf tournament and directed at the writers in attendance. Not to an alumni association meeting or his players or athletic director, who it means the most to. While it was nice to have something in black and white, we all know it's still bull.
College Football is a dirty game. For all the beauty and pageantry of Saturdays, the coaches and players are essentially mercenaries playing for old men in skyboxes. (To be honest, my life goal is to be one of these men.) Rules are bent to allow players to play and we look the other way when our players do things that would get our friends kicked out of school. We accept this and it is part of the deal fans and schools have made since Rutgers-Princeton.
Urban Meyer is in this category. (So is Tebow. You forget he posed in an Alabama jersey for an ESPN segment.) For all his talk of not going to Notre Dame, we know he's been a head coach in three places, and coached in four others. We know that he has spent his career jumping around from place to place. As soon as we think he is successful enough to settle down in Gainesville, we think of guys like Larry Brown (9 teams plus Kansas), Joe Torre (5 teams), and Lou Holtz (6 teams plus the Jets). Could Meyer be a job jumper? Who knows? And that is the problem. The Sentinel's Jeremy Fowler accurately notes that if Notre Dame sucks, the talk will continue. The only way Urban never goes to Notre Dame is if Charlie Weis starts coaching and they win games. Meyer's line, while reassuring, really is meaningless because there is so much out of his control. He does not control Notre Dame's record or the possibility of them offering a monster contract. He does not control what Paul Finebaum or Mark Richt (not accusing him, but he is a modern day Eddie Haskell), or Steve Spurrier say.
There is one thing Meyer does control; his contract. If Meyer wants to put his money where his mouth is, he will sign a contract that has a massive buyout clause (like $100 million) or prevents him from breaking the contract. If he plays out his contract and does not resign with Florida, he can leave or get fired. Otherwise, you can be the highest paid college football coach, with the security that Florida won't lose its investment. Until that happens, Meyer shouldn't be making promises.
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Amen!
It seems that as soon as you make definitive statements like this, they always come back to bite you in the ass and usually in a pretty big fashion. Never say never, Urban!
Your Logic has a fatal flaw...
So why is it that so many folks use the same FLAWED logic?
“For all his talk of not going to Notre Dame, we know he’s been a head coach in three places, and coached in four others. We know that he has spent his career jumping around from place to place.”
Let me just ask you a simple question, are you truly saying that: Bowling Green & Utah are equal schools in football to UF?
If so, then fine. But ask Utah why they haven’t play for a National Championship in their 2 undefeated seasons.
I’m pretty sure you’ll find NO ONE who thinks either of those places are on the same footing as UF when it comes to recruits, national recognition, or money influx.
Bring something real and substantial to this argument.
And don’t be so STUPID and short sighted as to put in a stipulation about breaking a contract. UF doesn’t do it. No one else is stupid enough to do it. Why make Meyer do it.
You may be a Gator fan, but please quit writing like Nole…
Bowling Green and Utah are not equals to Florida. But Meyer has spent time at Ohio State and Notre Dame; two of the schools that can claim more football tradition than Florida. If either of those schools had an opening, you know they’d at least call Meyer and offer a significant chunk of change. If he has already moved up from Bowling Green to Utah to Florida, who is to say he won’t do it again? Only Meyer can say that and a line at a golf tournament is meaningless without some clout behind it.
As for your claim about breaking contracts, Donovan has a $500,000 buyout plus a five year non-compete clause due to being released by the Orlando Magic. If you assume Meyer is worth more than Donovan, a huge buyout would not be out of the ordinary. In addition, Meyer could have left Utah for three schools without penalty; Notre Dame, Michigan and Ohio State. I am making the assumption he looks at those three as the top football schools in America, or at least once thought that. As for his buyout, the original contract had the buyout at $150,000. Foley would be stupid not to attach a large buyout to the contract Foley has not gotten this far by being stupid (Ron Zook being the exception).
mlmintampa
UF C/O 06
by mlmintampa on Jul 14, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec’d. i too think a buyout clause would be the one definitive statement in meyer’s grasp.
by Natty Bumppo on Jul 15, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
You are comparing apples to oranges….“He’s been a head coach in 3 places” You are correct in that fact, but each step was a promotion to a higher level program than the last. There is no higher program in the country right now that UF. We have top facilities, alumni dollars, revenue, resources, recruiting, etc. Just because a team has a richer history is not a reason to leave. Otherwise, we would be fearful of Meyer leaving for Army and Alabama as well.
Buyouts are meaningless. If a team wants a coach bad enough, they raise the money for the buyout. $500k? That’s chump change. Also, it would be idiotic for Meyer or Florida to sign any kind of clause that makes it virtually impossible for him to leave (plus it would probably be unlawful, but that is another topic). Circumstances could arise where it is in the best interest for one or both parties to part company.
You also might consider why the statement was made to reporters and not to alumni. Reporters are the source of the rumors, not the alumni. Maybe Meyer was tired of hearing from potential recruits things like “Coach X says that you are probably leaving UF after next season for Notre Dame, is that true?” Urban isn’t meek – he’ll face his accusers and speak his mind.
Lou Holtz won 1 national title in 33 years and had a career winning percentage of .650
Meyer has already won 2 in 8 years and sports a .830 winning percentage. Notre Dame’s days are over as a college football powerhouse.
Meyer is a winner. Look at the picture up above – as long as he continues to hoist those crystal footballs for the orange and blue, I’ll take him at his word. Has he ever given us any reason not to believe him? Or is it just because Saban did it, so Meyer must be a slick salesman too?
Just so – at the moment (and hopefully for years to come), any move to another college from UF would be, at best, lateral. And that applies to the cash that can be offered to coaches as much as the facilities, recruiting base etc (for pity’s sake, UF ranked third nationally in athletic department revenue for 07/08. ND was 14th, with UF bringing in a clean 27% more. Why exactly do people assume that ND would be the one to win the bidding war?)
I anticipate Notre Dame asking the Pope for extra cash to make the move. If that happens, the collection plate will never see another dollar from me. And the move is lateral to us. Not to a college football coach. We’re a part of it by being a student, alum, or we’re born into it. This is Urban’s job.
As for taking Urban at his word, that is all we can do. But Nick Saban said he wouldn’t be Alabama coach and the Dodgers weren’t leaving Brooklyn. It’s going to take Urban turning down ND (after they fire Weis) for us to actually be comfortable about him staying long term.
mlmintampa
UF C/O 06
It's a pretty sweet job
Pays pretty well – have one of the top 5 recruiting bases in the nation….have one of the top 3 budgets of any athletic program in the nation….have the best AD in the nation….have all the support (both emotional and financial) that any coach could ever ask for…the weather doesn’t suck like in South Bend during the winter…
Like I stated above – don’t lump Urban in with Saban just because they are both great coaches and recruiters. That is where the similarity ends as far as I’m concerned.
Do you mean you need to see Urban turn down ND AGAIN? He’s already told them no once, and now has publicly stated twice that he isn’t going there…..what more do you want?
BTW, there are only about 3 programs in the country in which a move from UF would be considered lateral and Notre Dame isn’t one of them. I would admit USC and Texas are equally as attractive as UF. I’m sure there is one other, but nothing really leaps out at me. Any other coaching position is a step down in my opinion and Urban doesn’t strike me as a down stepper…..
to me, this is all speculation. it’s speculation to assume meyer would leave florida for another university, but it’s also speculation to assume meyer would not leave for another university. ruling it out completely is impossible, no matter how many justifications you give. and although florida is certainly on a different level than ND in terms of current college FB powers, i don’t think any of us can quantify exactly how much (1) tradition/history and (2) midwest ties play into meyer’s mindset. and oh btw, florida has to fight it out with other SEC teams for CBS time, while ND has a completely unique and unbelievably juicy national TV deal directly with NBC. there’s no way this is as cut and dry as you present.
but hey, if it makes you sleep better at night..
by Natty Bumppo on Jul 15, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
All those reasons plus
He has stated repeatedly that he will not leave to coach ND. That makes me sleep better at night. Plus, it doesn’t matter how lucrative the NBC contract is if nobody is watching!
I can’t find it, but there was a blog that wrote about how the SEC teams make more than Notre Dame because of the recent sweetheart deal with CBS and ESPN. Notre Dame has the NBC deal for football, they are 1 of 16 Big East basketball teams in their ESPN deal. Florida gets two football contracts and one basketball, in addition to Sun/FSN and are 1 of 12 teams. We’ve moved past Notre Dame being the dominant power, but they still have enough name recognition and tradition to sway most.
mlmintampa
UF C/O 06
thanks, i stand corrected.
i’m learning all the time.
still, i’d submit that ND holds such a unique place in the market that with guaranteed national TV games, a winning coach could dominate the college football landscape (not saying urban doesn’t do that now…but the crux of the argument is that he might one day rather do it for his favorite teams from his childhood).
by Natty Bumppo on Jul 16, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
This
was my response to a Dr. Saturday thread about this..Its more about the fact that the media keeps going..and going..and going..
To be honest..what the hell do you media types expect?…not so much you Matt cause i don’t know your past in handling things like this. But im going to use you in a hypothetical…
So if a reporter came up to you and said..“Are you going to the ESPN?”…you would say…“NO…ill be at Yahoo for a long time”…or “No, im committed to Yahoo.” or “I have no plans to pursue a job at ESPN” or just “NO”….Why? Cause you don’t want to get FIRED!!! Not because you’re a lying SOB…but because you like having a job and paying your bills.
Just look at Jim Mora…he told the truth about Washington and got his ass fired! Don’t you think that coaches took note of that ? These are peoples lives and jobs we are talking about. What is it about the media and their expectations about people telling them the truth. People don’t trust them for a reason..We all know the media will take WHATEVER they said, turn it around and make it fit WHATEVER they want..
So of course he says he’s not going to ND..EVER!! IF he said..“yes..i’d like to coach at ND”…then the media would jump on the ship like a fat kid on brownie…and he’d be out of job. They are not lying…they are protecting their future..and guess what? Thats ok!
If they say “no comment”…then you guys think he’s lying…if they say, “i don’t want to talk about that”…then you guys keep pressing….what is an answer that the media will take and accept? I dont think there is one…No matter what they say, the media will keep pressing until they get the scandal they want…
Yes i know he already said that ND was his dream job…but that was AFTER the media had been hounding him about it…
One major difference
There was no chance of Urban being fired. He was at a golf tournament and wasn’t even asked about the ND thing – he just brought it up because he was apparently tired of other coaches using it against him in recruiting. So it wasn’t as if he was asked “are you leaving for Notre Dame?” He wasn’t even asked a question- so there was no need to say anything about it at all.
For arguments sake, let’s ust say he WAS asked the question and responded truthfully something like “I have no plans to leave UF anytime soon, but you can never say never.” What could possibly happen? Maybe Foley would talk to him about it but do you think he would actually get fired? I don’t think so.
IDK...
Lets look at Sabans position when he was at Miami…he was getting pounded…day after day….about the Alabama gig…Perhaps he was lying….so what? If he had told the truth..“Yeah, Im looking at the Alabama job”…what do you think would have happened?….a lot…and none of them are good…
The thing is, its the media that stirs the pot, then gets pissed when a coach doesn’t tell the truth…Cause for most coaches (maybe not Myer since he rules the roost) telling the truth, could mean being fired.
He could have said, “I’m not answering any questions about it.” I don’t fault Saban for going back, but he is the most recent example of a coach telling the same lie over and over. Saban is a great coach, but that will always be a mark on his resume. If he had ignored the questions (a la Belichick and Spygate), maybe it’s a different reaction.
mlmintampa
UF C/O 06
he did...
in the beginning..but as the rumors persisted, the media became more and more adamant on a better (more truthful) answer.
Hey, there is no doubt he handled it wrong, but the media got what they wanted…and now they are blasting him for it….
I just wish the founding fathers would have rethought the whole, freedom of the press thingy..
If you ignore the questions
Everbody assumes it is true. Then you are pointed our as a coward or soft for not answering the question. In the media, you are guilty untill proven innocent.
That is only true
If you end up leaving. If you ignore the questions and then don’t take the other job – then what?
Saban was also coming off a 6-10 season at Miami. Urban is coming off a National Championship. There is a little bit of difference there.
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